Exclusive Interview with Dragonfly Crypto Fund Managing Partner: From the Poker Table to Blockchain, Insights from a Crypto Pioneer on Bitcoin ETFs and Their Future

Author: Lin Wei, columnist for FT Chinese Network

I met Haseeb Qureshi at last year's Stanford Blockchain Conference, during the winter of the crypto space, while mainstream crypto funds were quietly positioning themselves. Haseeb, as a managing partner at Dragonfly Capital, is very active on social media and YouTube, showcasing his extraordinary insights. After learning about his story, I had the idea to conduct an exclusive interview with him.

To briefly introduce his background—Haseeb is not just a fund investor in the crypto space; he is also a programmer, writer, teacher, public speaker, and effective altruist. He has taught courses on web3 entrepreneurship at the University of California, Berkeley, and cryptocurrency courses at the Bradfield School of Computer Science. His career spans from being a software engineer at Earn.com (later acquired by Coinbase) to working at Airbnb, as well as serving as the product director at App Academy. Earlier in his career, he was also a top professional poker player; however, after experiencing a series of events related to the Girah scandal, Haseeb decided to leave the poker world and began a profound exploration of life's meaning and career direction.

After encountering effective altruism, Haseeb found a new life goal: to earn money to donate to the world's most impactful charities. His technical skills and risk tolerance ultimately led him into the tech startup space, and after completing programming training at App Academy, he transitioned into a technical expert. His experiences in the tech industry gave him deep insights into the flaws of existing financial infrastructure, which sparked his interest in cryptocurrency.

Haseeb's cryptocurrency career began with exposing a security vulnerability in one of the first DeFi protocols on Ethereum. He then joined Earn.com and achieved significant accomplishments in the crypto space. He co-founded Dragonfly with renowned Chinese venture capitalist Feng Bo, a global crypto investment firm dedicated to investing in blockchain projects that can lead the future of money and online ownership.

Interview Transcript:

On Current Bitcoin ETF Inflows Analysis

Lin Wei: Recently, Bitcoin ETFs have received significant attention, especially after Bitcoin's price hit new highs, leading to record inflows into ETFs. This phenomenon indicates that investors' confidence in cryptocurrency as a viable asset class is growing. As a native of the crypto space, what changes in attitudes toward cryptocurrency do you think these inflows signify, particularly compared to traditional investment markets?

Haseeb: After the collapse of FTX, many financial institutions lost hope in cryptocurrency. They might even have felt relieved, thinking they could ignore this technology and its challenges to the fiat banking system. The current consensus is—this view is wrong. You cannot ignore cryptocurrency. It is not going away. Even if some individuals go off track or companies fail, the idea behind Bitcoin will persist and will be accepted by human civilization as our global store of value. Now, institutional investors have realized this, which is reflected in the capital flowing into Bitcoin.

Spot Bitcoin ETF as a Trading Product

Lin Wei: Arthur Hayes, a prominent figure in the cryptocurrency space and co-founder of BitMEX, made a key distinction, stating that spot Bitcoin ETFs are different from directly owning Bitcoin; they are essentially financial products designed for trading within the traditional financial system, aimed at profiting in fiat currency rather than providing a path to financial independence. Given this perspective, how do you view the relationship between the increasing interest in Bitcoin ETFs and the spirit of decentralization and financial sovereignty in the crypto community?

Haseeb: Bitcoin means different things to different people. For some, it is a liberal escape from excessive central bank intervention. For others, it is an egalitarian experiment in new monetary distribution. For some, it is a way to protect their wealth from authoritarian governments. For others, it is purely a financial product, a hedge against the spiraling government debt. Satoshi had his views on Bitcoin, but ultimately Bitcoin is decentralized, and in a truly decentralized system, the system can mean different things to different people. If someone uses Bitcoin to express a financial bet, that does not prevent others from using Bitcoin to achieve financial autonomy. I think that is the beauty of Bitcoin.

Impact of Bitcoin ETFs and Regulation on the Crypto Market

Lin Wei: The regulatory environment for cryptocurrency is constantly evolving, significantly impacting the development and adoption of investment tools like Bitcoin ETFs. These regulatory frameworks play a key role in shaping investor confidence and determining how cryptocurrency integrates with the traditional financial system. Based on your experience, how do you view the current and future regulatory impact on the trajectory of Bitcoin ETFs and the broader crypto market?

Haseeb: Most likely, we will see the emergence of Ethereum ETFs in 2024. Once that happens, the next will be more top-market-cap crypto assets. If Gensler is still at the SEC by then, it could lead to a legal showdown to determine whether specific assets are unregistered securities. But given the court's stance (generally unsympathetic to the SEC's hindrances), I expect we will see the industry win continuously. Especially now, major financial institutions are interested in seeing this happen.

Bitcoin ETFs and Market Maturity

Lin Wei: Bitcoin ETFs are often seen as an indicator of the maturity of the cryptocurrency market, signaling that digital assets are increasingly accepted within traditional investment paradigms. This development could change mainstream investors' perceptions and valuations of Bitcoin. In your view, does the Bitcoin ETF indeed mark a new phase in market development, and what potential impacts could this have on the cryptocurrency ecosystem?

Haseeb: Absolutely. Bitcoin ETFs signify that Bitcoin has become a mild financial asset. This is a good thing! Remember, Bitcoin started in 2009—it is now 15 years old. Ethereum is about to turn 10. These are now old technologies, and they will increasingly be seen as a stable part of the financial ecosystem. But they will be anchored by new, more ambitious cryptocurrencies that will seek to overthrow them. As an investor, that is what excites me the most.

Cathie Wood's Optimistic Outlook on Bitcoin ETFs and the Crypto Market

Lin Wei: Cathie Wood, CEO of ARK Invest, is known for her optimistic views on technology and innovation, including cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin. She envisions a future where Bitcoin and other digital assets occupy central positions in financial markets. Considering Wood's influential perspective and her expectations for regulatory progress, how do you think her views impact institutional investors and the broader financial community's discussions around Bitcoin ETFs?

Haseeb: To be honest, I don't know how much influence Cathie Wood has nowadays. She made the right choice in continuing to be optimistic about cryptocurrency, but I don't think she has the same focus she had during COVID. I believe the biggest driver for cryptocurrency today is Larry Fink—Cathie Wood always says some fringe crazy things on TV, but when you hear Larry Fink say Bitcoin is the new gold, that gets institutional allocators' ears perked up.

From Programming to Crypto Fund Management

Lin Wei: Your transition from a software engineer at leading tech companies to a managing partner at a crypto-focused investment fund like Dragonfly showcases a unique combination of technical and financial expertise. How has your programming background and product development experience guided you in navigating and strategizing within the volatile cryptocurrency investment market?

Haseeb: Crypto is all about technology. If you don't deeply understand the technology, you cannot grasp whether a project is a flash in the pan or a protocol that will last for generations.

Effective Altruism and Crypto Investment

Lin Wei: Your advocacy for effective altruism—a philosophy and social movement that applies evidence and reason to determine the most effective ways to benefit others—has an interesting intersection with your role in the speculative world of crypto investment. How do you reconcile these two aspects, particularly the balance between investing in the crypto space and social responsibility?

Haseeb: I truly believe that crypto is ultimately a force for good in the world because it is a technology of freedom.

Most technologies are about efficiency. The internet makes information more efficient; artificial intelligence will make almost everything more efficient. But decentralized systems are the opposite. Decentralized systems are slow, inefficient, and less scalable than their centralized counterparts.

So why go through the trouble of creating these systems?

Because as a civilization, we need not only efficiency—we also need scarcity. Only through decentralized systems can you achieve provable, trustless scarcity. Only through social consensus can you create a monetary system that cannot be devalued or seized. And only through cryptography can you create self-protecting property rights. So why do we pay this huge price in efficiency, why do we fight for cryptocurrency, is because we believe in human freedom.

Teaching Web3 Entrepreneurship

Lin Wei: From your experience teaching web3 entrepreneurship at the University of California, Berkeley, education plays a crucial role in equipping future entrepreneurs to navigate the blockchain and crypto industry. With innovations like Bitcoin ETFs emerging, how important is this educational foundation for understanding and leveraging opportunities within the crypto space?

Haseeb: Entrepreneurship is at the core of crypto. Satoshi was an entrepreneur—he or she was an emerging thinker who brought Bitcoin into the world. Vitalik is an entrepreneur. The list goes on with Brian Armstrong, Jeremy Allaire, and more.

Ironically, almost all the value in crypto is captured by startups. While many large existing companies are trying to get into crypto—Facebook, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, PayPal—even BlackRock has not made much money in the ETF fee competition.

Instead, almost all the value in this space has flowed to Ethereum, Coinbase, Circle—this new generation of entrepreneurs. I expect this trend to continue.

Philosophy of Poker and the Crypto Market

Lin Wei: Your journey from a top professional poker player to an influential figure in the cryptocurrency space is both unique and illustrative. The strategic thinking, risk assessment, and mental resilience required in high-stakes poker seem similar to the skills needed for successful cryptocurrency investment. How do these skills influence your decision-making process and investment strategies in the highly speculative and volatile crypto market?

Haseeb: There are many similarities between poker and crypto. It is a rebellious profession—a type of job that would make your mother uneasy—while also being a volatile profession. It requires absolute conviction. It requires you to maintain courage amidst the ups and downs. It requires you to think clearly in environments where most people are emotional or irrational.

Lessons Learned from the Girah Scandal

Lin Wei: In the Girah scandal, you played a key role in mentoring young poker prodigy Jose Macedo, who later became embroiled in a high-profile fraud scandal that indirectly impacted your poker career, marking a significant turning point in your life. This event tested your personal and professional ethics and led you to deeply reflect on your career and life choices. Looking back on this experience, what lessons did you learn about trust, mentorship, and navigating high-risk environments? How has this shaped your views on the crypto industry and your perspectives on transparency and integrity?

Haseeb: This was indeed a turning point in my life. Looking back, it was a rather complex scandal. I am a very trusting person, and I still am.

But at that time—I was 21 years old—I was filled with fear. Fear of disappointing others, fear of being ostracized. Well, nothing heals the fear of being ostracized like being ostracized.

This forced me to deeply reflect on myself at a young age. To ask myself what kind of person I wanted to become. This is why I gave up poker, demanded more from myself, started over, remained humble, and stayed hungry. And it taught me the most important thing: to always be honest—not just with others, but with myself.

Transition from Technology to Crypto

Lin Wei: Your transition from the world of professional poker to the tech industry and finally to the forefront of crypto investment illustrates the value of adaptability and continuous learning. For those today looking to enter the crypto space, do you think a technical background is essential, or has the industry evolved to be more inclusive of diverse backgrounds and skill sets?

Haseeb: There are many valuable skill sets in the crypto space: building a great company involves operations, marketing, BD, etc. But at the end of the day, whether or not you work in tech, I recommend everyone try to understand blockchain technology more deeply—this will only deepen your intuition and help you make better-informed decisions about how everything will evolve.

Global Perspective on Crypto

Lin Wei: Dragonfly Capital aims to bridge the gap between Eastern and Western crypto markets, recognizing the subtle differences in market dynamics, regulatory landscapes, and cultural attitudes toward technology and investment. Based on your experience, what are the most significant differences in blockchain technology adoption and crypto investment strategies between these regions? What lessons can be learned, and how can these insights foster a more globally integrated crypto ecosystem?

Haseeb: It is difficult to view the entire "East" as a whole—Hong Kong is different from Southeast Asia, Japan, and South Korea. But if I had to generalize, the East tends to be stronger in applications and exchanges, while the West tends to excel in protocol innovation and core technology.

Personal Commitment and Lifestyle

Lin Wei: Your personal commitment to donating a significant portion of your income to charity, along with practicing fasting and following a Paleo diet, reflects a holistic lifestyle that balances professional ambition with personal well-being and moral considerations. How do these commitments influence your career decisions and your views on wealth, success, and the broader impact of your work in the crypto industry?

(Journalist's Note: Haseeb has committed to donating 33% of his income to charity each year since 2015.)

Haseeb: Although my profession is closely tied to money, I am not a person who is very motivated by money. (Perhaps that is the reason—I learned from a young age that money does not bring happiness.)

In a sense, not being driven by money is why I excel at what I do. If you are too eager for money, this work will drive you crazy. But if you are just trying to get better every day—for the sake of mastery—then money will come as a byproduct.

Advice for Entrepreneurs and Investors Looking to Enter the Crypto Space

Lin Wei: From poker to programming, teaching, and now leading a crypto investment fund, you offer a wealth of knowledge to those looking to make their mark in the crypto space. Based on your journey and the lessons you've learned, what advice would you give to emerging crypto entrepreneurs and investors? What pitfalls should they be wary of, and what opportunities should they seek to ensure success in this dynamic and ever-changing industry?

Haseeb: My advice to anyone looking to succeed in this field—don't try to imitate me. Don't try to imitate anyone. Crypto is strange and fractal, full of unexplored nooks and crannies. Find your strengths, find what you can become world-class at.

Tear up the map and go your own way.

Conclusion

After talking with Haseeb, I found myself deeply moved by his story and insights. One profound takeaway is that in this fast-paced, efficiency-driven era, we should not overlook the elements that truly shape human civilization: freedom, honesty, and humility. His journey vividly embodies this idea, especially his insights into the beauty of freedom brought by decentralization, reminding us to seek ways that enhance human well-being and freedom while pursuing technological advancement.

Haseeb's candid sharing of his experiences with the Girah scandal demonstrates the courage to face failure and fear. This is not just a story of personal growth; it is a lesson on how to maintain humility in the face of challenges. His transparency and reflection showcase a rare courage and wisdom, allowing us to see the strength found in growth through failure.

Moreover, Haseeb's deep insights into the crypto space and his attitude toward money provide us with a valuable perspective. He illustrates how to integrate personal values with a career, not merely for the accumulation of wealth but for the pursuit of deeper satisfaction and contribution to society. His lifestyle and work approach also remind me of the typical Silicon Valley exploration of achieving professional success and life meaning.

Through this interview, I am reminded once again that true influence comes from how we face the storms of life, how we learn and grow from each challenge, and how we strive to create a better world with an open mind and steadfast values. Haseeb's story is not just a wealth-building narrative in the crypto space; it is a tale of transformation, courage, and belief in the future, inspiring each of us to pursue goals that not only bring personal achievement but also foster positive change for humanity.