Dialogue with TON Foundation: The Principles of Building a "Web3 Super Application Ecosystem"

Interview: flowie, ChainCatcher

Guests: Steve Yun, President of the TON Foundation; Bill Qian, Chairman of Cypher Capital and Board Member of the TON Foundation

At the recent Token 2049 conference, the announcement of the TON Foundation and Telegram "rekindling their relationship" quickly sparked a new wave of excitement in the narrative of "mass adoption of Web3 applications." Telegram not only announced the integration of the TON self-custody crypto wallet "TON Space," but also stated that TON is its only Web3 infrastructure. Moreover, TON Foundation President Steve Yun even revealed in his speech that their goal is to attract 30% of Telegram's users to join TON by 2028.

"Is the 'Web3 super application/Web3 version of WeChat' about to arrive?" This question has sparked intense discussions among community users. Bill Qian, Chairman of Cypher Capital and a board member of the TON Foundation, also commemorated this moment in a social media post after the announcement. He stated, "With 800 million monthly active users and 400 million daily active users, Telegram opens an exclusive secondary entry for TON globally, which will become one of the largest Web3 entry points in the world, with daily active users surpassing the total daily active users of global exchanges."

Bill recalled that before founding Telegram, the core members of Telegram and the TON Foundation had established the original "Facebook" for the Russian-speaking region—Vk.com. "The principle of first creating a hit product and then evolving into a super app has always been their consistent approach." Bill revealed that after leaving Binance in 2022 and joining Cypher Capital, TON was the first project he invested in. At the end of 2022, Cypher Capital announced a $10 million investment in TON, and Bill also became an external board member of the TON Foundation, participating in the development of TON.

There are claims that the integration of TON and Telegram reflects a model similar to the WeChat ecosystem. TON Foundation President Steve Yun believes that their vision is to have a more far-reaching impact, driven by blockchain technology. The reason is that only in a Web3 environment can they provide users with low-cost, high-efficiency transaction experiences and truly allow users to control their own data, assets, and identity information.

"Mass adoption," "super entry" have always been hot topics in Web3. What are the principles behind Telegram and TON in building the "Web3 super application"? What is the current status and future potential of TON? How do they view future challenges and industry competition? Recently, ChainCatcher invited TON Foundation President Steve Yun and Cypher Capital Chairman and TON Foundation board member Bill Qian to delve deeper into these topics.

1. How to Understand "Web3 Super Applications"?

1. ChainCatcher: In the "Transforming Telegram to Web3 with Toncoin" speech at Token2049, Telegram not only announced the integration of the TON self-custody crypto wallet "TON Space," but also stated that TON is its only Web3 infrastructure. Steve, could you elaborate on the roles that Telegram and TON will play in building the "super application" in the future?

Steve: In the announcement we jointly released with Telegram at the Token2049 conference, we declared how the TON Foundation will closely collaborate with Telegram to introduce Web3 experiences to Telegram users. In summary, the TON blockchain will be integrated into the global Telegram user interface and will become the only Web3 ecosystem that is heavily promoted.

However, providing easy access to the TON ecosystem wallet for Telegram users is just the first step in realizing the vision of the TON ecosystem. The vision of TON is to create a Web3 mini-program ecosystem based on TON within Telegram. The deep integration of TON and Telegram, along with the wallet's integration into Telegram, will build a perfect system—a platform for developers to create Web3 "mini-programs." This platform will be simple and intuitive, incorporating Telegram's highly praised social features, such as message forwarding, inviting contacts, and sharing in group channels.

We envision that this Web3 "mini-program" ecosystem will transform Telegram into the first Web3 super application that meets the needs of both crypto enthusiasts and ordinary users.

2. ChainCatcher: As an investor and board member of TON, how does Bill view the significance of this collaboration between Telegram and TON? The Cypher Capital team actually invested $10 million in TON at the end of last year; what were your expectations for TON at that time? Do you have new expectations after this recent development?

Bill: After leaving Binance in 2022, the first project I chose to collaborate with was TON. My logic is simple: our industry has always been "over-speculation and under-fundamentals." So where do the fundamentals come from? Scenarios are the fundamentals; only high-frequency, tangible scenarios can bring the entire Web3 to a user base of 1 billion. Whether Web1, Web2, or Web3, at the end of the day, it's all about internet business, and the foundation of internet business should always start with traffic and end with transactions.

Therefore, after leaving Binance, while building a new platform with my partners, I have been looking for a "killer app" that can "hit high frequency with low frequency." I have known the Telegram and TON teams for a long time and often meet in person in Dubai. No application in the world has more daily active users than Telegram; for example, WhatsApp, so Telegram is essentially the highest frequency platform that can do Web3 globally.

So when I became the chairman of Cypher, our first investment was in TON. At the same time, as a member of the foundation, we have been actively discussing strategic cooperation with Telegram and are very pleased to have officially announced it in the third quarter of this year.

3. ChainCatcher: Did the integration and usage of the TON wallet and Telegram draw inspiration from WeChat? The crypto community in China often refers to the collaboration between TON and Telegram as "creating a Web3 version of WeChat." How do you view this statement?

Steve: Indeed, some viewpoints suggest that the integration of TON and Telegram has shadows of the "WeChat model." However, our vision is to make its impact more far-reaching and driven by blockchain.

Only in a Web3 environment can peer-to-peer online transactions and interactions be realized, allowing us to provide users with low-cost, high-efficiency transaction experiences. More importantly, only in Web3 can users truly control their own data, assets, and identity information.

We firmly believe that establishing a decentralized application ecosystem on the TON blockchain and integrating it with the Telegram user interface can provide users with a safer, privacy-protected, and more powerful experience, empowering a large number of end users.

Bill: In fact, during the Web2 era, Pavel, as the founder of vk.com, and Andrew, as the first product manager of vk.com, had already studied and learned from the strategies of super apps like WeChat in detail. After returning to Moscow, they quickly turned vk.com into a super app for the Russian-speaking region. Later, Pavel left Moscow, came to Dubai, and founded Telegram, and this principle of first creating a hit product and then evolving into a super app has always been consistent.

After joining the foundation, although I am just a part-time board member, I have still invested a lot of energy into building the Asian ecosystem for TON. I recommended my former colleague from JD.com, John, to take charge of TON's ecosystem in Asia; at the same time, our Cypher partner, former Chief Human Resources Officer of Meituan, Elaine, is organizing various offline events for TON in Hong Kong through her cross-border recruitment platform.

4. ChainCatcher: What does your ideal "Web3 super application" look like? What are the similarities and differences compared to Web2 super applications like WeChat?

Steve: The vision of TON is to shape the Web3 experience into a social experience driven by blockchain technology. Simplicity is key to mass adoption, and the initial step in promoting Web3 is to integrate Web3 technology with a friendly user experience that better meets user needs.

However, the pursuit of a Web3 super application goes beyond this. It should grant users complete control over their digital identity, data, and assets. Unlike Web2, where account ownership lies with the platform, in Web3, the ownership of accounts belongs to users, who can transfer them freely; data related to accounts will not be used for targeted advertising or other forms of abuse; asset circulation will no longer go through multiple intermediaries but will achieve peer-to-peer transactions. A Web3 super application ecosystem is designed to be borderless, allowing geniuses from anywhere in the world to compete in the global market.

Web2 super applications are like economies controlled by a central entity, with numerous rules and "taxes" extracted from each interaction. In contrast, Web3 super applications resemble a completely open, free, permissionless, and purely peer-to-peer market. The TON Foundation is committed to encouraging more "mini-program" developers to jointly build this Web3 super application vision based on TON.

In summary, the main difference between Web2 and Web3 applications is that Web3 enables online peer-to-peer interactions without relying on any other trusted third parties. This is the disruptive characteristic of blockchain that empowers individuals and communities.

Bill: To achieve the goal of building a Web3 super app, we certainly cannot be rigid. Web2 super apps typically cover a wide range of areas from online scenarios (social, gaming, video, financial services) to offline scenarios (ride-hailing, retail). However, based on the technical characteristics of Web3, I believe that future Web3 entry applications will primarily focus on purely online scenarios.

2. The Current Status and Future Potential of TON

5. ChainCatcher: Steve, can you share what plans are next for TON Space? What are the differences between "TON Space" and the built-in custodial wallet function in Telegram? What roles do they play in the Telegram ecosystem? After launching TON Space, what important strategic roadmap does TON have?

Steve: First, it needs to be clarified that the wallet in Telegram and Telegram Messenger are two completely different business segments; it is not an official wallet from Telegram. The (custodial) wallet in Telegram and TON Space (non-custodial wallet) are both developed by The Open Platform's developer team.

The next step for TON Space is to integrate its wallet by default into the Telegram menu, with a global launch planned for November. This global layout will allow hundreds of millions of users to easily have a Web3 wallet, enabling TON ecosystem projects to achieve a one-click login user experience and cryptocurrency payment functionality.

Unlike custodial wallets, TON Space can interact directly with the blockchain, and users have complete control over their assets. When users can connect directly to their applications and complete transaction confirmations without leaving Telegram, "mini-program" developers will also benefit.

In summary, this wallet aims to address two major challenges in the mass adoption of blockchain technology: first, how to reach a large number of users, and second, how to provide a smooth onboarding experience for non-blockchain beginners.

6. ChainCatcher: In the speech at Token 2049, it was mentioned that the goal is to attract 30% of Telegram's users to join TON by 2028. Do you think TON will soon surpass Ethereum? Besides having the user traffic advantage backed by Telegram, what are the strengths and weaknesses of the TON network in terms of technical routes and ecosystem development?

Steve: TON has strong sharding capabilities, and its transaction processing speed far exceeds that of other mainstream blockchains, avoiding issues of rising costs and transaction delays. TON is poised to become a leading blockchain platform that is widely adopted.

The advantage of TON lies in its core products supporting a comprehensive Web3 revolution—decentralized storage, proxy layers, DNS domains, payments, sites—are all embedded in the core of the TON blockchain from the beginning, rather than being separate applications built on the blockchain like others. This allows seamless interaction between core products to be utilized by builders at any time.

Bill: The advantage of TON lies in the user traffic after establishing application scenarios in the future. Currently, Ethereum has less than 1 million daily active users, while Telegram has 400 million daily active users and 800 million monthly active users.

Although TON has a relative user advantage, Ethereum still holds the lead in terms of the number of developers, maturity of the development environment, and legitimacy in the global community. However, just as there are multiple public clouds in the real world (AWS, Azure, Google, Meta, Alibaba Cloud, Tencent Cloud, Huawei Cloud, etc.), the Web3 world can also accommodate multiple "world computers" Layer 1 solutions. Therefore, even though Ethereum has become a giant in Web3, TON still enjoys its unique positioning and value.

7. ChainCatcher: Data shows that TON now ranks among the top 100 whale addresses holding over 50% of the total token supply. Will the large holdings of early TON miners pose a threat to the decentralization of the TON network? What plans does TON have for achieving complete decentralization?

Steve: The TON Foundation is just one of many organizations within the TON ecosystem, and we always support and respond to the core interests and demands of the community. Among them, ensuring that the supply of Toncoin continues to move towards decentralization is also a focus of ours.

Recently, a community team launched a smart contract called "believers.ton," which aims to lock Toncoin gifted to contract addresses for two years, and then return it to depositors monthly over three years. believers.ton quickly received a warm welcome from many holders, with over 1.3 billion TON (approximately $3.2 billion) locked in the contract, accounting for about 25.85% of the total supply.

After community resolution, the TON Foundation invested 1 million TON in this initiative as participation incentives. Although this does not directly mean complete decentralization of assets, it indeed reflects the community members' strong belief in holding TON for the long term.

Additionally, our community and validation nodes have always played an important role in achieving the decentralization of Toncoin. For example, in a vote earlier this year, the community decided to freeze some long-inactive TON accounts, locking up about 1 billion Toncoin for four years.

8. ChainCatcher: Compared to the ecosystems of some leading public chains, what are the main characteristics of the TON network's ecosystem? What are the key focuses of ecosystem development? What plans does TON have for ecosystem incentives in the future?

Steve: In guiding the transition from Web2 to Web3, various projects within the TON ecosystem are emphasizing eliminating barriers for non-blockchain native users and providing a more intuitive and convenient experience.

Take Wallet as an example; it allows non-cryptocurrency users to easily transfer cryptocurrency to each other by sending messages. For those unfamiliar with the industry's jargon and technical details, they do not need to use complex and lengthy wallet addresses for transfers. They can simply use the other person's Telegram username to complete the operation. Similarly, in the TON ecosystem, we see a series of user-friendly dApps aimed at end users. These applications have friendly interfaces and intuitive operations, greatly simplifying the complexities behind the blockchain.

In summary, the core difference from other blockchain ecosystems is that TON developers are actually building Web3 with real use cases for a broad user base.

9. ChainCatcher: After Ethereum, second and third generation public chains have emerged one after another. How do you view the future landscape of the public chain track that TON is in? What is the key to winning?

Steve: I truly hope that all blockchain projects thrive so that the world has more options. However, due to the complexity of developing and maintaining a truly decentralized and general-purpose network driven by an open-source community, I believe that only a few blockchains will exist in the future. It is likely that all smaller blockchains will fade away if they do not discover a specific use case.

TON's contribution to the entire blockchain industry will be to bring the critical majority into the Web3 space. Together with Telegram, TON will bring Web3 to mobile. In the future, I believe that TON will be one of the blockchains with the most activity and users.

Bill: The competition for infrastructure is an infinite game, and each survivor will have its unique competitive endowment. TON is already among the top five Layer 1s globally. I believe that with its unique scenario advantages, TON will maintain and strengthen its leading position in the future.

3. Challenges and Industry Competition in Building a Web3 Super Application Ecosystem

10. ChainCatcher: Besides lowering user barriers, what other challenges do you anticipate TON and Telegram will face in successfully building the "Web3 super application"?

Steve: The biggest focus is attracting and retaining global talent for many future crypto cycles. To this end, we plan to hold an exclusive TON ecosystem conference in Hong Kong next year. We hope to captivate today's Web2 users with compelling use cases.

The biggest short-term challenge lies in the regulatory uncertainties surrounding Layer-1 maintained by decentralized open communities. Our community is consulting different jurisdictions that are trying to provide regulatory frameworks for DAO organizations.

The long-term challenge is adaptability. The TON community must continuously guide itself in the right direction, adhere to its original intentions and vision, and openly encourage active and voluntary community participation. The freedom of peer-to-peer transactions and interactions can only be achieved through the community's efforts.

11. ChainCatcher: Although Telegram has 800 million users, scams on Telegram seem to be rampant, and there have been past privacy breaches. The crypto community has voiced concerns that this will pose significant obstacles for the wallet and crypto financial system that Telegram and TON are jointly building. How do you view this?

Steve: The TON Foundation has always fully recognized the importance of protecting user safety. However, we do not agree with the notion that crypto itself leads to more fraudulent activities.

On the contrary, blockchain technology enhances the ability to track and address criminal activities. In many cryptocurrency-related "attack" incidents, it is difficult for attackers to circulate the funds they obtained without being caught. For example, hackers who stole $4 billion worth of Bitcoin from BitMex were quickly apprehended and faced prosecution when they attempted to transfer the funds. The Mango Markets incident is another example, where the attacker was ultimately forced to return most of the funds.

In contrast, traditional fraud incidents involving fiat currency often make it difficult for victims to recover their losses. While cryptocurrencies face criticism in some aspects, the value they bring far outweighs their potential issues compared to the traditional systems they aim to replace. The TON Foundation believes that, rather than fraud issues, the complexity of cryptocurrencies is the main barrier to their mass adoption for new users, and TON has been committed to addressing this issue. All centralized and custodial services will comply with regulatory safeguards to protect consumers. On the other hand, decentralized applications are based on the absolute freedom of end users but also come with unlimited responsibilities.

Just like in all societies, we are beginning to see various informal social scoring systems emerge in our community as a form of social checks and balances. We hope our community members continue to set high standards, promote education, reward good behavior, and discourage bad behavior.

TON is fortunate to have voices that shape us into a self-disciplined community. I condemn all illegal activities, and our hearts are with the victims. At the same time, it is important to recognize that certain types of privacy are so valuable that they are considered a fundamental human right.

12. ChainCatcher: MetaMask recently launched the Snaps feature, which is widely regarded by the crypto community as one of the super applications for the mass adoption of Web3 in the future. Do you think there will be competition between the two in the future? In comparison, what are the advantages and disadvantages of the super entry that Telegram and TON are building?

Steve: TON brings a mobile Web3 experience to Telegram's global user base. Both TON and the mini-programs based on TON are built with a "mobile-first" approach, aligning with the usage habits of Web2 users. Unless the world shifts back to desktop PCs, I believe the trajectory is clear.

13. ChainCatcher: Finally, do you have any messages for crypto users and developers in the Chinese-speaking regions?

Steve: We have discovered a powerful force from the Asian community—they have experienced and participated in the success of regional super app ecosystems. Based on this, we will hold a dedicated ecosystem conference next year in the local language, with Hong Kong as the first choice.

Bill: Chinese-speaking users, as the most understanding of super apps, are the "soulmates" of Telegram and TON. We look forward to building together with Chinese-speaking users and developers to welcome the next bull market.